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Eli
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#1

Countdown To Eternity - Bible Prophecy Documentary trying to show how Bible prophecies are being progressively fulfilled. This is a scholarly work worth to watch and listen to:



Related discussion: Creationists vs evolutionists debate:

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kipanga
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#2

The bible is a hodgepodge of incoherent writing, for every statement you can find in the bible, you can find a counter.This is due to the fact that it was intended to be all encompassing, in the process, it sacrificed accuracy for reach. It is like Swahili proverbs. One will tell you "Haraka haraka haina Baraka" while another will tell you "Ngoja ngoja yaumiza matumbo". It is not the proverb themselves that guide you (You will clearly be confused as to whether to hurry up or slow down from the two proverbs above), rather, knowing when to use which proverb is what matters.

Dr. Isaac Asimov, the prolific science fiction writer had a story that I remember reading in my early teens. The story about how there is a special relationship between the bible and the numerical proportions of the solar system. Dr. Asimov took me on a wild ride relating hidden numbers in the bible, the number of the books, verses etc and the proportions of the planets in the solar system, distance, moons etc. At the end, while I was completely captivated and highly leaning towards believing everything he wrote, he pulled the rug from under my feet and revealed that he had made up everything, just to show that any clever enough person, given a large enough set of data, can show a relationship that is not even there!

As I watch this prophecy video I see the same. They will start to twist some interpretation of how many years a "day" is supposed to be, and all that code stuff, to plant in their manipulative linking.

That does not cut it. The bible is not the world of god, not an all knowing all loving and all capable god anyway.

If it was, it wouldn't be with so many contradictions. See http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_ ... tions.html
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Eli
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#3

Interesting. I'm interested in the contradictions and incoherences that you think they do exist in the Bible. As far as I know, there are a lot of Bible prophecies which have been fulfilled and others are being fulfilled from time to time.

Take an example of these two statements drawn from the link you posted:

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

What is the problem for God being both peacefully and warrior? Since as far as I understand, God's character is immeasurable, limitless, too difficult to be comprehended by human mind in relation to His Mighty!

Human ability is always limited, the science the man boasts of cannot even describe the universe: it's origin, existence, and fate!

Take an example of famous Newtonian mechanics, the laws of motion do not suit under all circumstances.

How did the universe and life came into existence? Can you give me a satisfactory, empirically testable answer?
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kipanga
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On bible prophecies which have been fulfilled and others are being fulfilled from time to time. How do you know that these are bible prophecies being fulfilled? How do you know that this is not just common sense observation? The second law of thermodynamics says in a closed system, left to themselves, things tend to go from order to disorder. When the bible says in "the last days" people's love will grow cold and people will love money than they love the lord, how do you say this is prophecy and not an ancient observation of some earlier version of the second law of thermodynamics? How do you know that this is not just an elder observing that as population grows, people are getting more aggressive and cruel and do not care about others as they used to, and in the future it will get even worse? Reading this a couple of thousands years later, how can you say this is prophecy and not just common sense observation?

How can the lord, the epitome of perfection, be a lord of war and peace at the same time?
Why do you accept by fiat that god's character is immeasurable, limitless and too difficult to be comprehended by the human mind? If that is the case, why discuss him at all? Don't you think that you are making a cyclical argument here?

I am telling you God can't be peaceful and warlike at the same time, you are telling me there is no problem with a contradictory God since he transcends logic and human understanding (in which case there is no point discussing him).

You cannot start by saying God is limitless and too difficult to understand. That is not supported by anything, it is an a priori fiat decree. I can easily tell you that there is no evidence of such a God. The idea is wishful thinking.

I do not understand the significance of the Newtonian mechanics, so what if Newtonian mechanics laws do not satisfy all circumstances? How does that prove God exists?

If I do not know how did the universe and life came into existence, that does not prove God exists just as if I do not know what is the square root of two that does not prove the square root of two is ten.

Can you prove God exists?

The bible says god is all knowing, all loving and all capable.

Why would such a God create a world in which evil is possible while he could have created a world in which evil is not possible without incurring any loss?
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Eli
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#5

There is no any other Book with records and exactness of fulfilment of prophecies like Bible. There are a lot of fulfilled Bible prophecies covering every arena of human life, foretold with time span ranging from hundreds to thousands of years before they happen!

There is no way I can start imagining that these prophecies are a result of something else while historical facts evidence, they emanate from Bible! Human civilization, law, observation, science or whatever human ability in relation to focusting is very limited. For example, how many know what is going to happen just tomorrow? We don't know!

The reason why I've attributed science failure to explain every situation is to show how human is unable to understand and explain everything. We know very little about life, universe, its existence and a lot more.

God has given us freedom of choice. Having this freedom means we can rebel against God and make choices that are contrary to His desires or choose to obey Him. Apart from giving us freedom to choose, He apparently denounced that anyone who chooses anything that is contrary to His perfect and holy will is committing sin. So God created a man and gave him ability to make choices, at the same time showing what would be the consequences of his choices.

Due to its complexity, but yet a perfect design, we can know with certainty that an all-intelligent Mind - Omniscient, Omnipotent , Omnipresent God created the universe and all life on Earth, things we can see and those we cannot!

Partly, God allows suffering to happen to show us that, there are things in this world which are beyond our understanding and abilities, so that we turn unto Him, become obedient and acknowledge our dependence on Him only for our survival. But, other reasons for God allowing suffering in the world are beyond our understanding.
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kipanga
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#6

If the bible is the word of god, why does it have so many contradictions?

See

http://www.answering-christianity.com/1 ... ctions.htm

http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_ ... tions.html
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Eli
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#7

kipanga wrote:If the bible is the word of god, why does it have so many contradictions?

See

http://www.answering-christianity.com/1 ... ctions.htm

http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_ ... tions.html
There is no contradiction in the Bible. For example (from http://www.answering-christianity.com/1 ... ctions.htm),

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1: 1)

is not a contradiction. Bible was written over a time range of several thousand years, roughly from around 1450 B.C to 100 A.D, encompassing various historical epochs, circumstances and scopes. Therefore, as you read through the Bible, take such into consideration!

God commanded Moses to number the Israelite soldiers on two different occasions: once in the second year after deliverance from Egyptian bondage (Numbers 1: 1 - 4):

1. And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying,

2 Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls;

3 From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.

4 And with you there shall be a man of every tribe; every one head of the house of his fathers.

(Numbers 1: 19): As the LORD commanded Moses, so he numbered them in the wilderness of Sinai.


And again about forty years later near the end of Israel’s wanderings in the desert (Numbers 26: 1 - 4):

1 And it came to pass after the plague, that the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest, saying,

2 Take the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, from twenty years old and upward, throughout their fathers' house, all that are able to go to war in Israel.

3 And Moses and Eleazar the priest spake with them in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,

4 Take the sum of the people, from twenty years old and upward; as the LORD commanded Moses and the children of Israel, which went forth out of the land of Egypt.


"Sometimes, however, one’s motives can turn lawful actions into sinful deeds (cf. Matthew 6:1-18). Such was the case with King David when he decided to number the Israelites in the latter part of his reign. God had not commanded a census be taken, nor did David instigate it for some noble cause. Instead, the Bible implies that David’s intentions (and thus his actions) were dishonorable, foolish, and sinful (cf. 2 Samuel 24: 3,10ff.)" - Reference

So, here it is regarded that Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1: 1) because David did so without instructions from God and for his own motives and glory; that's, he was tempted by Satan to do so, and this is very evident from the verses (I Chronicles 2 1: 1 - 3):

1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2 And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.

3 And Joab answered, The LORD make his people an hundred times so many more as they be: but, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? why then doth my lord require this thing? why will he be a cause of trespass to Israel?

"The Hebrew verb wayyaset, translated “moved” (NKJV) or “incited (NASV), is identical in both passages. God and Satan’s actions are described using the same word. The difference lies with the sense in which the word is used: Satan incited (or tempted - cf. 1 Thessalonians 3: 5) David more directly, while God is spoken of as having incited David because He allowed such temptation to take place. The Hebrews often used active verbs to express “not the doing of the thing, but the permission of the thing which the agent is said to do” (Bullinger, 2898, p. 823, emp. in orig). Throughout the Bible, God’s allowance of something to take place often is described by the sacred writers as having been done by the Lord. " - Reference

This one counter argument makes your very first claim in the list redundant.

I will stop here, until you are satisfied that, your first claim in the list is not a Biblical contradiction, then I can jump to the next.
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kipanga
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#8

So God was not able to reconcile all the facts into the Bible in a coherent way, through his revelation to the writers?

Surely we expect a Ph.D thesis from a mere mortal human to be more coherent than the biblical mishmash, one can't get a Ph.D doctorate if such incoherent texts is in the dissertation.

Are we giving this Godhead a lower threshold of excellence than our mortal Ph.D candidates?

Does this God really exist? Or is he just a figment of our collective imagination?
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Eli
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#9

kipanga wrote:So God was not able to reconcile all the facts into the Bible in a coherent way, through his revelation to the writers?

Surely we expect a Ph.D thesis from a mere mortal human to be more coherent than the biblical mishmash, one can't get a Ph.D doctorate if such incoherent texts is in the dissertation.

Are we giving this Godhead a lower threshold of excellence than our mortal Ph.D candidates?

Does this God really exist? Or is he just a figment of our collective imagination?
There is no inconsistency in the Bible. Bible is perfect and absolute. You are creating inconsistencies that do not exist in the Bible, either because of your own wishful thinking or wrong interpretations. Refer my earlier responses to

"1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1: 1)"

God is sovereignty, He has not only given us a Bible, but a privilege to see everyday fulfilment of His word. God has decreed all that has ever happened and ever will happen, and all His plans shall be fulfilled:

Luke 21: 32 - 33:

32. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

33. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Isaiah 46: 8 - 10:

8. Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors.

9. Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

What you claim to be contradictions, have been cleared:

1. http://www.debate.org.uk/debate-topics/ ... /contrads/

2. http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/bible.htm

3. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-comfo ... bible.html

4. https://answersingenesis.org/contradict ... ure-index/

5. http://www.gotquestions.org/welcome.html (478,430 Bible Questions Answered!)

6. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... links.html

7. http://www.contradictingbiblecontradictions.com/
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